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Marcos Cuartas-Jaramillo's avatar

Excellent. The next post should be about how much more efficient public goods and services are in some European countries, which, as you noted, poor and middle-class Europeans end up paying for, compared to US states with high tax burdens, like NY. It is striking to see how much better the outcomes in education, health care, and public housing are in Nordic countries ... It seems like the capture of public good provision by some interest groups has not worked very well in some US states.

Ebenezer's avatar

US has relatively decent educational outcomes depending how you look at the data:

https://xcancel.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/1822296863879450861

Our poor life expectancy is mostly not due to our healthcare system, but rather poor lifestyle choices:

https://xcancel.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799707583299587#m

I think you are correct about interest capture, but I suspect it affects all countries roughly equally. We should still fight it though.

Marcos Cuartas-Jaramillo's avatar

I am commenting from a classical liberal view. And you are right, both health and educational outcomes in the US are not that bad - yet, extremely heterogenous. My claim is that, to some extent, public provision of certain public goods and services in some political units throughout the United States has been indeed captured by minority groups - Olson. In terms of fighting "interest capture," it seems quite hard since perverse incentives dominate political economy decisions. Ultimately, my sense is that Nordic countries because of some particular circumstances, like more homogenous population, tend to get their politicians more accountable. The good thing about the US though is certainly the inter-state competition that kinda disciplines these political actors from deviating too much - but as Daniel pointed out, Mamdani seems not deterred from bad policy. We will see.

Michael's avatar

I try to make this point all the time, but it just seems like slopulist economics and looseness with facts are all the rage on the left and right nowadays. Sigh

forumposter123@protonmail.com's avatar

Bingo!

Americans aren’t going to pay a VAT to ultimately sure up boomer retirement benefits, which is where we know the money will go.

Btw the thing that made all this “work” was the SALT deduction, which took the edge off those high blue state taxes. This led to very bloated state budgets because the incentive is to spend money because it brings in fed bucks (same thing happened with Medicaid expansion).

Ebenezer's avatar
6dEdited

Another interesting fact. If you look at Our World in Data, the fraction of the population that lives on $30 or less per day is identical for Sweden and the US:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/poverty-share-on-less-than-30-per-day

(Norway is not a good point of comparison since they have a massive sovereign wealth fund due to oil)

That Our World in Data site is great for quickly fact-checking national stereotypes. You learn that a lot of "common wisdom" has simply been repeated over and over with a questionable factual basis.

Pot vs Kettle's avatar

Military spending is the final factor. The US has, on balance, outspent European countries on military by 1-2% GDP for the last 40 years. I have shitlib friends who roll their eyes every time you point this out as if it doesn't single-handedly explain the difference. I think the average person really just doesn't understand how a gap like that compounds over decades.

Michael's avatar

It's one factor, but the difference in middle class tax rates (all in) is the main thing.